Dream
Sparky Sue
Posts: 22
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Post by Dream on Nov 3, 2015 20:01:07 GMT
Is it only me, but have the episodes recently just not have been as good as they could be?
I only recently got into Doctor Who, but I loved all the seasons, except for the most recent ones, I suppose. For some reason, Season 9 has felt off for me. It just hasn't been as good in my own opinoin. Is it just me? Or am I being silly here? I am not completely sure. What are your thoughts on this, guys?
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Post by piercesmoulder on Nov 4, 2015 1:55:45 GMT
Something I miss about New Who before Moffat took over was that we were often given a lot of one-off characters that were memorable and loveable. Characters who you'd go 'Wow, they'd make a good companion' even if they don't become companions. We don't get that a lot any more, the writers tend to throw the audience right in to the adventure with no time to really bond with characters.
Even Clara is like this, where she's so flat that her only feature lately is that she's trying to act like the Doctor and is a really bad liar. We know zilch about her family, all we know is she has one, she's awkward with them, and her mom died which was apparently supposed to be important, but was only used as a plot point ONCE and never mentioned again.
Meanwhile, Rose had a family. Martha had a family. Donna had a family. And we knew ALL about their families too. We knew Rose's mom wasn't exactly the best person, but that ultimately she really values her daughter. We see Martha's family has a lot of problems, but in the end they grow as a family together. We see Donna's family is a little bit screwy and attributes to her general attitude, and Wilf was so great that he was honestly companion tier.
Amy and Rory was the downfall of this family trend. Amy's parents were literally written out of existence and aside from that we had NOTHING about her family. We didn't get Rory's dad until their last season, and he was a great character, but they deleted the scene that would have given him closure. Amy's parents were returned... But who cares? We never really see them again. We never really see what their involvement even did for her. They have 0 purpose.
A character's family and life defines them just as much as their personality, and Moffat just skips the whole 'life' aspect of characters in favor of focusing on epic plot twists and spooky monsters.
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Post by DreamOfSerenity on Nov 4, 2015 11:33:51 GMT
Its really not that hard of an accomplishment either, when you think about it. If I can use Tick Tock as an example, it literally only took us one two-parter episode and we know more about his family life then we ever did with Amy and Rory's.
Who were his parents? He was adopted by a griffon.
Who were his siblings? Two brothers and both also adopted.
What are they like? Well we got to spend personal time with every one of Tick Tock's family, so we can say that General Lionheart was stoic, brave, and really short tempered but a loving father. Lightwing and Tick Tock were close at one point but Lightwing cared more about rank and it got to his head, but he's an excellent combatant. Jot is non-confrontational and an outcast like Tick Tock was, so it can be heavily assumed they got along the most, and he's a sweet heart.
Why is Tick Tock so bitter? Because his older brother was a complete jerk to him and the town followed his example and treated him poorly.
Its not that hard! Brill got that all covered in one episode, and it wasn't even part of the main plot. There was an entire war being prepped for around these issues. Just good god, its not going to kill you to show who your companion was and what life surrounded them before they were whisked away for space adventures. Or if you don't delve into family details, you better be absolutely confident in the fact that your character is good enough standing alone and can be interesting without a detailed backstory like Captain Jack Harkness was or Sarah Jane Smith.
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Post by pennoink on Nov 4, 2015 14:23:52 GMT
Not to mention how incredibly uninspiring are a lot of elements of the show. When was the last time I felt the chills down my spine like Midnight? When was the last time I felt so emotional like in Human Nature/The Family Blood? The show as previous comments mentioned, lacks heart into these factors.
And I'll just get nitpicky here, but even the music has been draining it down for me as someone who adores soundtrack music. The new theme of the Doctor is basically generic stock action music garbage, incredibly repetitive and less well constructed than "I Am The Doctor". Heck, they even put an unfitting dubstep music into the very first episode, in a scene which was totally unnecessary (Missy pops her head off the screen, lel so random insert dubstep).
I have this feeling that Murray Gold is just filling the gaps at this point, because while the man has shown he's got some mad talent during the years of new Who, it shows like he doesn't want to be a part of it anymore. There's even less orchestral pieces now and more synths, and if it is orchestral, it feels so themeless and boring nowdays. I could be all day nagging about this with each track, but that would take way too much of my time, for pointing out the obvious.
So yeah, I agree here.
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Post by aethias on Nov 4, 2015 17:48:30 GMT
Is it weird that I have a long winded speech prepared just about how the show has been downgrading over the years? No? Then good, let's get on with it.
I'm judging each season by how memorable and interesting it was overall. (And yes, I'm going to bring up the soundtrack. Because I love it.)
Season One - Wow. There have got to be more memorable episodes in this season alone than any other season in the series! Fathers Day, Rose, Dalek, the list goes on! In fact, I'll just go ahead and say that the entire first season is one of my favorite first seasons for a TV series. I loved Christopher as the Doctor, though it seems no one shares this opinion... I loved the relationship dynamic between him and Rose, the music? Not my favorite, but The Doctor's Theme stands out as probably my favorite iteration of the track. (And I would like to thank Pennoink for being inspired by this theme in particular when writing a theme for the Doctor.) Overall, season one is brilliant, the story, characters, music, I loved it. And would watch it again, and again.
Season Two - There is ONE reason I don't like this season as much as the previous. David Tennant. I'M KIDDING! It's because of Love and Monsters. Arguably the worst episode in the series, in my opinion. I barely remember anything from the episode, so I can't delve into why I dislike it so much. Not to say that I dislike the entire season, but I can't remember much from it besides the Doomsday two-parter, but still and excellent season overall. The music has definitely improved this time around, with Doomsday probably being my favorite track. Though this season created the rabid DoctorxRose shippers, that eventually evolved into the raving mad DocDerp shippers. (Not to say those ships are bad, but the people that ship them... There's some wackos out there.)
Season Three - OH MY GOD. Blink, The Family of Blood two-parter, the GENIUS way the overarching story was told, I'm STILL seeing and hearing little hints towards the finale after more than two years of watching this series! The Family of Blood was the first time I had actually cried watching this series, not to say that I was never sad, but I had never cried before this point. Martha, despite being strangely hated by everyone I know, was an excellent companion. I felt sadder about her departure than Roses, honestly. And I love that they introduced Donna an entire season before she became the companion! How often has THAT happened in Doctor Who? The Master, though somewhat ridiculous at times, was great. But the constant drumming in his head made him a bit to cartoonish for my tastes. But I still love John Simms performance. Pinpointing a favorite track for this season is... Difficult, there are so many greats! But I'm going to have to go with the Blink Suite. It's the right mixture of suspense, creepiness, and overall beautiful use of the oboe that makes it my favorite. This season is wonderful, with episodes like 42 and The Runaway Bride, how could you go wrong? (What do you mean Evolution of the Daleks? That wasn't ridiculous at all!... Ok, maybe a little.)
Season Four - I love this one, probably more than the previous three seasons. David Tennant is soon brilliantly as the Doctor, Donna is the PERFECT fit for him, (sorry DoctorxRose shippers) and Turn Ledt was AMAZING. Musically, this is undoubtedly my favorite season. Tracks such as Midnight, The Dark and Endless Dalek Night, Vale Decem. They're all incredible. I've tried, but I can't pick a favorite episode or track. I love the fact that they brought back every companion for the season finale, and that he's been the only Doctor to visit all of his previous companions before regenerating. I'm just going to stop there, otherwise all I'll be doing is praising this season. This is my favorite season, and it will remain so until Steven Moffat is given the boot.
Season Five - This is my second favorite season. Yeah, there's some stuff wrong with it, and yes, sometimes it was ridiculous, but it still blew me away. The writing, acting, and musical score was brilliant, I Am the Doctor is one of my favorite tracks from the series. It's got it's flaws, but it was a strong beginning to Steven Moffat and Matt Smiths career. Vincent and the Doctor is my favorite.
Season Six - Strong beginning, decent middle, lackluster and predictable ending. There were some greats in this season, The Almost People stands out as one of Matts best performances, but overall? Eh, I'll pass. Don't even have a favorite track of music, I find this season to be kinda boring.
Season Seven - I'm not sure where to begin, because I honestly can only remember the specials, the Trenzalore episode, and the Ponds last episode. The rest was not really to interesting to me. I hardly remember it Now, the soundtrack? Different story. Goodbye Pond, Trenzalore, The Long Song, Infinite Potential, We Are the Doctor. It's my second favorite soundtrack of the series, and especially difficult to pick a favorite.
Season Eight - I think this one was better than the last, Capaldi makes an excellent Doctor, Clara is getting worse by the episode, and The Master is probably my favorite incarnation (though admittedly I haven't seen every single one yet.) The first episode was good, and the finale was decent, but other than that? Meh. Same for the music, the only tracks I think we're good was the new theme, and Capaldi's theme. The rest is meh. And Pennoink, Capaldi's theme was purposely based off I Am the Doctor. Steven Moffat wanted to keep using that theme, but Myrray Gold wanted to create a new one. So they compromised, and Murray wrote a theme that was very similar to I Am the Doctor.
Season Nine - I hated the opening. There were good moments, but overall? Left a bad taste in my mouth. The ghosts episodes reminded me of Classic Who. In fact, the entire structure of this season seems to be following that of Classic Who. With each story lasting at the least an hour and a half. Bland yet they STILL don't have enough time to tell the story! Except the Ghosts one, I liked that one. The soundtrack sounds just like the season eight soundtrack. So overall meh.
Steven? You've done some great stuff, but you need to go.
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Post by mrlongwinded on Nov 4, 2015 23:24:57 GMT
Ohey! New Who thread! I shall now give my two cents *throws handful of pennies*
Moffat's Who has been... Well... I wanna say rocky?
To be honest, I don't feel strongly about it, but I am disappointed with some of the things Moffat has done. I don't really like how he writes the Master and I don't really like Clara. I just feel so bad for Jenna Coleman! She has literally nothing to work with!
I have been liking season 9 so far. I mean, it does have its moments of yuck, but I REALLY liked the Zygon Invasion.
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Post by piercesmoulder on Nov 5, 2015 2:08:53 GMT
I agree on feeling awful for Jenna. Her character had more personality as one-off fragments that died the same episode than the Clara we have now. We know more about her FRACTIONS than we do about her. We knew Dalek Clara was (at least) bi-sexual for example. And Christmas Clara, oh my god, she was perfection! She was a woman working against the grind of society, she was the Doctor's equal in wit and charm and she was an inspiration for him. You could get an idea generally what her life was like, and it made her so charming for the time period.
And all of that was thrown away for this garbage 2 dimensional female who instantly falls in love, lies compulsively, can't seem to do much for herself, is constantly trying to be something she's not, and she has the WORST entitlement issues. And on top of all of that, it's like Moffat assumed because she's modern, we don't need to know how she grew up or who her family is or how they influenced her life and personality.
There's implication she has a step mom now? And implication she's bitter and awkward around her family because of that? But that didn't matter, because we spent most of that dinner table making jokes about the Doctor being butt-naked weird pretend boyfriend instead. We don't even know WHY she needed to pretend to have a boyfriend in the first place, we don't see her family pressuring her about it, so why was it needed?
Ugggh.
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Post by vukodrakkanien on Nov 6, 2015 0:35:13 GMT
Don't forget about the shades mouse one.
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Pearl Whitney
Pony
Hi! I'm new here, I hope your having a great day!
Posts: 29
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Post by Pearl Whitney on Nov 6, 2015 3:28:22 GMT
I can not agreed with you more. After Matt Smith left and Peter took over as Doctor It's been really Rocky. I refuse to watch season 8 and nine because of how much I dislike the newest episodes.
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Princess Layla Shine
Guest
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Post by Princess Layla Shine on Nov 6, 2015 13:01:20 GMT
Agreed.After the awesomeness that was Matt Smith who is personally my favorite, Capaldi was a bit of a let down. Also, Clara was my favorite companion of all time until her character was ripped apart for the sake of an episode. She lost that independence and curiosity that we all loved her for and became a follower and ocasionaly made some reckless decision to keep the episode going. *cough* *cough* Rose *cough*
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Dream
Sparky Sue
Posts: 22
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Post by Dream on Nov 6, 2015 14:52:11 GMT
...
That moment when you realize you are not alone is a beautiful one indeed. <3
I will reply with a longer response later, seeing as I am on mobile. But for now, I want to see Capaldi's doctor has grown on me in a way since his introduction. I don't think he is specifically the problem - more of the writing, as others have said.
I wish Jenna had left before Season 9 just so they wouldn't make a mockery of her character anymore. I guess that is too much to ask for. Dalek Clara and Christmas Clara werw both so interesting, I was hoping for so much more when I heard she was actually a companion. Season 8 is not rewatchable material!
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Post by Aswad Ze'ev on Nov 6, 2015 20:19:47 GMT
I know i'm just posting this as a guest but my few pennies on the subject are this. I grew up on the back end of the old series and i've watched most of the origional stuff. Reguarding the new series. I still don't really get Eccleston as the doctor or the character Rose. There was just no real relationship between the Doctor and his companion. To put it simply, Micky barely made a better companion.
Tennent was a proper Doctor but it took until Smith and Jones for them to finally give him a real 3 dimentional character who actully had a sense of wonder i could believe. (Donna Noble/Catherine Tate has been the best new companion to date with the possable exception of Wilfred Mott).
That brings us on to Matt Smith. Fantastic Doctor following on and even raising the bar from the awesomeness of David Tennent. The only letdown was Rory was way the better companion than Amy. Although in fairness she did have her moments where she was brillient.
I get that people don't like Clara but considder she's a lost character who now has already had every experiance of being in the doctors past. That kind of experiance changes a person even if it's not clear on the surface.
Finally that brings us to Peter Capaldi. He may not be a Hollywood style doctor that people think they have come to expect from Doctor Who but he is so deep and dark just as the doctor has always been always since William Hartnell. People misjudge and don't understand his doctor in the same way they didn't like Colin Baker. The writting staff are trying to show us the doctor isn't always the blockbuster hero. It's exactly like having the awesome Wartime Doctor around except we're seeing him all the time at the moment and not the daring dashing hero side of the doctor people are used to.
Think of it like this. Would you hate any of your friends if for a while you only saw their darker side. So the new Doctor isn't bad it's just deeper and darker than you've come to except from this awesome series.
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Post by CinnamonPearl on Nov 6, 2015 21:07:06 GMT
I agree completely. Moffat is really starting to bludgeon this great show, and he refuses to step down when the vast majority of the fandom is calling for it. His problem is he uses up all his time to think of new epic ways to twist his viewers' brains or make them cry for a bit rather than actually writing good character or plot. Example? Season six. Does anyone actually know what happened in that season? Truly and completely? After getting his start as showrunner in the very excellent season five, he went nuts trying to make complicated plots that he thinks Doctor Who should have and goes overboard with it, meanwhile completely neglecting the things people are actually coming to this show for.
Season six was a nightmare of confusion, but season seven had a bigger problem: boredom. The first five episodes of that season, the last Pond episodes, were god awful. After they finally moved the Ponds out and brought Clara in, the episode quality got a little better, but not much. And you know what the irony is? Originally, Moffat was going to have Victorian Clara as the permanent companion. But then he thought of a brilliant new scheme to prove how smart he is (*cough cough* Impossible Girl), scrapped that idea, and gave us the trainwreck that is modern Clara. The episodes were better, but Clara was just a drag, and the whole romance thing she had with the Doctor was completely distracting.
I didn't have a problem with season eight while watching it, and I actually do really like Capaldi and his work, as he is a nice change from the bombastic interpretations of Tennant and Smith, but someone else raised a good point. I can't remember a single episode from season eight. Besides maybe the premiere and the finale, it's all a blank. Completely unmemorable, and that's because Moffat was once again more interested in less important aspects of the show. I've barely been watching season nine.
We know that Moffat can write good episodes with memorable characters. Think about all the episodes he wrote before he became showrunner: The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, The Girl in the Fireplace, Blink, and correct me if I'm wrong, but did he write Midnight too? All these episodes have very memorable characters that would've been amazing companions AND legitimately frightening monsters. To this day, I still remember the orphan leader from WWII England (not her name, unfortunately), Madame de Pompadaur, and Sally Sparrow and her friend's brother. It baffles me to no end as to why Moffat has apparently lost this ability. Moffat is useful as a writer who comes back once or twice a season to grace us with amazing episodes, but as showrunner, the power goes to his head. He's more interested in proving how smart he is rather than giving us good writing, and this is something he can do in Sherlock without ruining Doctor Who.
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Post by JosieMaree on Nov 7, 2015 0:50:15 GMT
Just the fact that Peter and Jenna are really close friends and have fun on set is enough for me to watch the newest series.
About Clara's family, we had those few scenes where the Doctor was observing Clara's parents from afar. There was how they met, some parts of just them together, and even the parents with little Clara. Aside from those few scenes, we had her gran added to her known family in the Christmas episode, and she even reappeared in the episode where Danny Pink died. We were also introduced to the family she stayed with when she was a nanny, they kind of count too. I don't think we're really lacking information on her family, they're not really major characters in the show, we don't need to know their whole life story.
I do agree with the lack of good writing in the latest episodes, though I thoroughly enjoyed The Magician's Apprentice and The Witch's Familiar, I guess I just really love Missy, and when Clara is in the Dalek and trying to convince the Doctor it's her makes me all gooey inside. I wish the new series was as enjoyable as recent ones.
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Post by Aswad Ze'ev on Nov 7, 2015 11:28:39 GMT
We know that Moffat can write good episodes with memorable characters. Think about all the episodes he wrote before he became showrunner: The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, The Girl in the Fireplace, Blink, and correct me if I'm wrong, but did he write Midnight too? All these episodes have very memorable characters that would've been amazing companions AND legitimately frightening monsters. To this day, I still remember the orphan leader from WWII England (not her name, unfortunately), Madame de Pompadaur, and Sally Sparrow and her friend's brother. It baffles me to no end as to why Moffat has apparently lost this ability. Moffat is useful as a writer who comes back once or twice a season to grace us with amazing episodes, but as showrunner, the power goes to his head. He's more interested in proving how smart he is rather than giving us good writing, and this is something he can do in Sherlock without ruining Doctor Who. Unfortunally Moffet has gone down the same road as Russell Davis (there is no T in his name). Started out with good intent as the Show's Director but somewhere has lost his way a little. Steven Mophet didn't take over as the shows Director until 11th Hour (Matt Smiths First Episode). SO maybe there is somthing about being both Director and script writer that hurts their ability. On the flip side his work on Sherlock is Brilliant. This is going to sound like i'm picking a fight with the new series and the old series can people please make the distinction between wether they are talking about the the new or the old more clearly. The distinction between Series and Season is just for convenience for people who are not familiar with the origional series. Also there is the American influance in the new works so it's pandering to America a bit. So the all new work should technically be called Season/Series 27-35. Also to JosieMaree If the actors didn't get along it would make filming harder. That being said there have been some cast members in the past who havn't got on and it's actully helped to add to the tension between the Doctor and his companions. See Tom Baker and Louise Jameson (4th Doctor and Leela)
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